I like logic. It's like lego for your mind. One bit added to another till you've built something amazing!
You can do the same with scripture too. Grab a few verses, fit them together and heh, before you know it, you've got a doctrine!
Or maybe you prefer 'ready, steady, cook'. You know the format, random ingredients, celebrity chefs, 20 minutes - amazing meal. Same thing - random selection of scripture, celebrity preacher, 20 minute sermon, beautifully presented doctrine.
Trouble is when you start to ask 'what sort of God would God have to be if this were true? Does that stack up against what we see revealed in the breadth of scripture?'
Here's a topical example:
Ingredients
1. We are saved by grace through faith, not by works so that we have nothing to boast about
2. This means we can have no part in the process of our salvation
3. It all has to be initiated and accomplished by God
4. Because if not, we could point to the bit we did and say 'heh, look how good I am'
Doctrine
Where does this lead? Well, if it is all of God, we cannot be involved in the decision as to whether to respond to God or not. Because if we have to choose as part of the process of our salvation, then that in itself is a work in which we can boast. 'See, I chose God, what a great decision I made'
But if we have no choice in whether we are saved or not, God's grace / love must be irresistable - it must be so powerful as to overwhelm, to make our choice redundant. Thus if God chooses to love someone, it must inevtiably lead to them loving Him, it cannot be left to their choice. It is God's initiative, the person had no part to play except to respond in the way they had to - and therefore it is God's work not the persons. Salvation by grace.
What does God look like then?
Which is why I asked the question in the title. Here's some more logic:
1. Not all people believe
2. Everyone who God loves has to believe because His love is irresistible
3. God's love must actually only be given to those He has chosen will believe.
Add this conclusion to a superficial read of Paul's passages on election and predestination and you arrive at the classic the reformed position in which God has, for His own mysterious purposes, chosen ahead of time to save some and not others. Those He has predestined to eternal life He extends His irresistable love and grace to; they have no choice but to respond and are saved. Those who are not predestined for this cannot be saved but are under God's wrath and eternal judgment.
Thinking Allowed
Now, lets 'Think allowed' - does this sound like the God revealed in the Bible as a whole? A God who does not love everybody, or at least not enough to save them? Haven't we fallen into the same legalistic trap as the scribes and pharisees, boxing God on the basis of our logical extensions to his revelation of himself?
Surely when Paul talks about 'works' the natural connection to make given everything else he writes is with 'works of the law'. We are saved by God's goodness, not by ticking boxes of external behaviour. No amount of law keeping can substitute for a loving relationship, whereas of course a loving relationship will result in loving behaviour.
Love, Paul tells us does not insist on it's own way. God is love. God throughout scripture gives us choice. God's love is poured out equally on everyone. Whether we choose to benefit from that love is up to us. That's not a work for boasting, it's a choice for rejoicing.
Good stuff David... Am liking the Rob Bell 'love wins' echo there!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, David. It nevertheless feels quite bold to say that the reformers have got it wrong....
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed this, David. Love wins. Justice wins. Grace wins. Righteousness wins. God is love. God is a righteous judge "who displays his wrath every day". (Ps 7) Logic...well, doesn't every systematic break down at some point, if we use the logic route? We see through a glass darkly. Mystery. Rejoicing.
ReplyDeleteLogic is a strange beast. I have used it in my profession all my life. It's what computers use.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I learned quite early that this is man's logic, not God's logic.
Scripture, looked at from man's point of view is upside down. A King born in a stable, etc.
Not surprisingly, it is man that is upside down.
I have no doubt whatsoever that God loves me. How does it work? I'm really not sure. Do I deserve to be loved? I really don't think so!
God's love seems to be so much more than I can understand. So I just say Thank You (quite often) and try to get on with what he wants me to do.
Is this too simplistic?
Best for me at least 'balanced' book I've ever read so far on this ''timeless'' classic of a discussion is ''Once saved always saved?'' by David Pawson. I was ''indoctrinated'' with the calvinistic reformed end of the scale as a new christian (Martin Lloyd Jones & calvinistic reformed brethren church etc) but as I started reading the word over the years I've certainly moved away from the ''choiceless'' Irrisistable grace argument. It obviously involves both parties and I'm saved being saved and will be saved once I'm wearing my new resurrection suit. that's when I'll say ''I made it - I'm saved.
ReplyDeleteAll rather academic and jargonistic but not practical.
ReplyDelete